We Need to Talk About Louis - YouTube
Transcripts:
There's so many times I just want to come out and tell people like I'm [ __ ] sorry. I'm really sorry I hurt people. And I feel I've felt like in the way that it was so hard to take all of that at once, that much anger once. It's like I just don't have a sorry that covers it. And I don't have only one feeling.
Sorry is not the only feeling I have. The first time I saw Louie, I was in my first year of uni. I stumbled across a clip of chewed up on YouTube. He was talking about deer in his neighborhood, but these weren't the prancing Disney deer from the movies. Oh no, these deer were a menace.
Huge, scabby rats roaming the neighborhoods that hiss when you get near them. Louie describes stopping in front of one late one night in the middle of the road. They lock eyes. Two miserable creatures engaged in a pointless game of chicken. Louie screams. The deer freaks out, charges at his car, and breaks its neck. Broke his neck. I heard him break his own [ __ ] neck.
And then he just dragged his stupid deer head into the woods. The image of Louie rolling his head sidling across the stage snapped in my brain and I absolutely lost it. It wasn't just the horrific imagery, but the perspective it was coming from. CK wasn't like other comedians with a spring in their step and a chuckle in their heart.
He came from a netherworld where the skies are black and all the deer do is represent the stupid indifference of the universe. This didn't feel like comedy, but the guttural scream of a guy who can't believe his life has gotten even worse. I got out of my car. I did. And I yelled in, "I'm glad you're dead, you [ __ ] idiot. I hope your dear wife finds you dead and dies of a broken heart.
Hope your dear baby starve to death. You broke my mirror. You deer. Louis CK changed my life. There's no other way to say it. When I left home to go to uni, I needed comedy that connected with me on a deeper level. Life wasn't the cakewalk I thought it would be. It seemed an unending treadmill of failure and humiliation.
Suddenly, all the British, woody, witty comics I'd grown up with didn't hit the same way. To find someone who could tap into the misery of existence with such poetic fury wasn't just hilarious, but cathartic. His jokes felt like they were coming from somewhere deep within him. His punchlines weren't dainty, but primal.
He didn't feel like watching a comedian, but releasing an angry, bottled up part of myself I didn't know was there. [Music] Usually, you go to see comedians to laugh and escape yourself for a while. You go to see Louis CK to laugh, but also to connect to yourself in a way that's both alarming and reassuring. I became a fanatic. I listened to his albums on a loop while weeding rose bushes over a summer in Australia.
That was horrible. By the way, a ginger should never be in the desert. But it did make me feel closer to Louis in a weird way. I'm very I'm very sensitive to this one. Oh My God quickly became my favorite stand-up special of all time. I obsessed over his show.
Rewatched it multiple times and consider it one of the most influential pieces of media I've ever consumed. Timing. You got to get them. You got to tell them, "Okay, work on your speed. Come back on Wednesday." I became equally fascinated with him as a person. CK had a way of talking that I adored. He spoke simply in a way I immediately understood, able to boil a complicated idea into a simple simile or description. for an aspiring comedian.
He was, and I say this in all seriousness, Jesus. Yeah. Specials are something. It's to me, I used to describe it like a um the way they make samurai swords or used to that they bang it and then fold it and then bang it again and then they fold it and keep banging it. So, you know, they pound on it and they fold it so that they're squeezing out all the all the oxygen that's in the You know what I mean? Just keep making it perfect. So, every time you think I've got an hour, no, you don't.
write another hour and then fold it into that one and and then get rid of all the impurities and all the bad stuff and then keep doing that. His story was as inspiring as his act. CK's life was defined by failure. He had gone through a hellish divorce, flitted away his 20s, poured his heart into a sitcom that was scrapped after a season.
He wasted time and opportunities, stumbled down dead ends over and over. He didn't look like a celebrity or embody anything celebrities represented. He was overweight, poorly dressed, pasty skinned, balding badly, and didn't have the head shape to pull it off.
If I saw him on the street, I would feel sorry for him and breathe a sigh of relief I wasn't him. And yet, here he was. He built his audience from nothing and thumped his nose at convention. He rarely did anything unless he was passionately driven to do it. And he found the money to make it happen, even when everyone in Hollywood laughed at him until they saw how his fans loved him. And then everyone laughed with him. He showed that grit, talent, and dogged determination could get you anywhere.
For every knock and slam door he gained a little more perspective. Another notch of wisdom he would carve into his act. The fact he appreciated failure, that he was defined by his losses more than his wins was revolutionary to me. I had a run on a bunch of shows, but I you get more I've always said this that you get more information from failure than you do success because there's forensics.
There's a dead body on the floor and there's all kinds of information, you know, there's you can see what how well clearly he should have done this and he you know, but uh when there's when everybody wins and there's just confetti everywhere, you don't really, you know what I mean? Nobody looks into it. When I started performing standup, my jokes were a cheap CK knockoff.
This will sound insane, but when I started writing jokes, I had spent so much time listening to CK that I would hear them in his voice. the way he would speak, the pauses and repetitions. He would literally be delivering my jokes in my head as I was writing them out. He felt less like a comedian and more like a spiritual guide, as if his flickering blue Star Wars hologram was standing beside me as I was writing out my dick jokes. I will do your bidding, master.
It's indistinguishable. Louis success felt like my own. And the fact he found it so late, was a constant source of reassurance. I can't count the number of times I thought to myself, Louie wasn't famous until his mid30s, you still have time.
After I bombed at another open mic in the middle of Wales and sat on a midnight bus with my head pressed against the window wondering what the [ __ ] I was doing. You win. I'm done. Please, I don't want to do this anymore. He's easily been one of the most influential people in my life. I don't think I've ever had such a strong attachment or sense of kinship with someone I never knew. He gave me a blueprint for comedy.
I think subconsciously I'm still following today. He wasn't just a comedian, but a hero and a role model. He was beautiful and honest, and I loved him. And uh that's the end of the video. So really appreciate you guys coming. Uh don't forget to like and so don't look at the time stamp. Like and subscribe. And I'll see you soon in the next Oh, [ __ ] it.
Oh, here we go then. No. God, please. No. No. No. No. On November 9th, 2017, in the height of the Me Too movement, the New York Times released an article with accounts from five women alleging between 1997 in 2005, CK either asked to or performed masturbation in front of them. It is labeled sexual misconduct. The fallout is immense and sudden.
Within a day, his agency publicist and longtime manager Dave Becky cut ties. FX and their association cancelling several indevelopment projects and any possibility of a sixth season of Louis. Netflix backs out of a deal to produce another comedy special. The Orchard halts distribution of his independent film I Love You Daddy.
He is trolled through the media, particularly in regard to his perversion and the severity of his crimes. He lost the lead voice role in The Secret Life of Pets. Two, to Patton Oswald. Friends and collaborators distanced themselves. He later said he lost $35 million in an hour. His status as the greatest comedian of a generation is revoked.
In the click of a finger, he is cancelled, disgraced, and gone. Controversial Alabama Senate candidate Roy Moore reportedly engaged in inappropriate sexual conduct with an underage girl when he was 32 years old. Man, politics so full of perverts and deviants. I'm just so glad I work in comedy. A damn it. Um, he's at the bottom and uh there will be nothing for Louis CK for a minute. The following day, CK releases a statement coping to all of it.
The headline, "These stories are true." His apology, ironically, was criticized for not saying sorry and for referencing how the women admired him on four separate occasions. Quartz and other websites edited it to sound like a real apology, but I remember liking the apology.
I thought Louisie displayed the empathy and self-awareness necessary to internalize what he did. It didn't sound like PR [ __ ] or like someone else had written it for him. It sounded sincere, especially compared to the nonapologies of other men, which read as either dismissive, in denial, or bizarre. Yes, Kevin, I'm looking at you. This has got nothing to do with anything, but isn't this the craziest animation you've ever seen? [Music] My [ __ ] helicopter of laptops to bring the guilty verdicts to Matt Lowour. Louisie addresses the victims directly, confirms the truth of the accusations without arguing, attempts to
express understanding of how he abused his influence, and accepts the losses he's incurred. He doesn't deny responsibility by pleading mitigating circumstances like sex addiction or questioning his accusers motives. I came of age in the 60s and 70s when all the rules about behavior and workplaces were different.
He addresses the power dynamic, one of the most complicated elements of his misconduct and one he could have chosen to ignore. As mentioned, he doesn't say sorry directly, but he does apologize, saying, "I have been remorseful of my actions." He admits he's tried to learn and run from the allegations.
He says he will step back and take a long time to listen. We'll discuss what exactly a long time and listen mean a bit later, but I thought Louis heart was in the right place and believed the criticisms aimed at the apology were genuine oversightes. In short, I believed Louie. Now, these allegations caught me totally offguard. I only heard about them when my flatmate told me the article had been released.
I had literally been watching clips of his standup the night before to prepare for a gig. I was hurt, confused, and angry. And in that states, the easiest thing for me to do was look to let Louisie off the hook. Several factors enabled me to do so. For one, CK didn't physically assault anyone. He masturbated in front of them, but never touched them.
At the time, there was a lot of confusion about what CK did and why he did it. What exactly was motivating him to masturbate in front of these women? And what kind of damage was this causing? You see, I have no frame of reference for in in front of two women who are friends to take off all your clothes and just jerk off. I can't wrap my head around that.
I can't wrap my head around doing that. These behaviors themselves don't even make sense sexually. It's like I don't even understand why they would do that. The story seemed sad and creepy, but also kind of harmless. Even sexual misconduct seemed like a madeup term to label behavior that didn't cross into anything truly criminal.
The trauma and impact he had on these women's careers, while a factor was more abstract and harder to quantify than direct sexual or physical assault. Second, he got consent. This is vital. He asked these women if he could masturbate in front of them. If they said yes, he did. If they said no, he didn't. Huge.
Thirdly, there weren't many stories. This wasn't an avalanche of information. Four individual events, one involving two people, all occurring over 10 years prior to the article's release. Also, of the four incidents, one where CK asked Rebecca Cory if he could masturbate in front of her on a television set seemed honestly barely worth mentioning.
He asked, she said no. What's the big deal? The main thing that enabled me to dismiss the allegations was the general feeling instigated by cis male normies like me that the me too movement was overstepping its bounds. No one could deny the disgusting predatory behavior of Cosby and Weinstein.
As the movement continued, the stories became more complicated. CK fell into this bracket. He deserved at the very least a conversation, a clarification, something. Yet me too's judgments remained just as harsh. When CK was cancelled, immediately and without discussion, it created in myself at least a huge amount of anger and resentment. I was a Louis disciple. I kissed the ground he walked on.
The person who fundamentally informed my identity on comedy and life, which anyone who watches this channel knows is my life, was being labeled by many a sexual pervert and potential predator. All over behavior that no one seemed to understand. It felt like a personal attack. All the comedy specials I loved had been branded with a black mark.
All the work he could have made cut short. It was an enormous existential loss. And for this to happen when there were so many unanswered questions seemed like, I'm going to say it, injustice. To see his image besides those whose behavior I thought was far worse made me incredibly upset and angry. This is all there is.
He should not be put in the same boat with [ __ ] Harvey Weinstein and Kevin Spacy and other guys out there who they're saying are touching underage people or or [ __ ] you know I mean it's like like there's worse there's a lot worse [ __ ] happening in Hollywood than my dumb friend not knowing that he shouldn't pull his stupid dick out.
Jeremy Seinfeld, who somehow dodged me, too, summed it up talking about Roseanne and Cosby. Yes, I'm going to do the voice. What's new for people is the suddenness and the precipitous fall. So much work gone so fast. We're upset at the speed of it because it's new. I know it's horrible. They just went, "You're done. This is a new kind of moment.
Usually, there's a crumbling, a crack. Someone tries to get in there with some spackle." Nice, Jerry. I look forward to you continuing to spackle your relationship with a 17-year-old. In an interview on Popcorn with Peter Travers, Matt Damon talked about this rush to judgment. I do believe that that there's a spectrum of behavior, right? and and we're going to have to figure out like what, you know, there's a there's a difference between, you know, patting someone on the butt and rape or child molestation, right? Both of those behaviors need to be confronted and
eradicated without question, but they shouldn't be conflated. Like, you know, the Louis CK thing, like I I I don't I don't know all the details. I don't do deep dives on this, but I did see his statement which kind of was arresting for me, which when he came out and he said, I did this. He said, I did these things.
These women are all telling the truth. And I just remember thinking, well, that's the sign of somebody who, well, we can work with that. I remember feeling Damon's remarks were exceptionally level-headed and reasonable. The fact he then got shredded primarily by Goodwill Hunting castmate Mini Driver contributed to me feeling me too was becoming mental.
The allegations against Aizari were the final proof I needed to affirm Louis innocence. On January 13th, 2018, babe.net, reputable source, published an account from a 23-year-old woman using the pseudonym Grace, accusing Ansari of sexual misconduct after being too forward in his advances after they returned to his apartment from a date.
The woman accused Ansari of not reading her nonverbal cues. The story sparked conversation about whether Ansari's actions constituted sexual misconduct. Some considered it a valuable discussion about the subtleties of consent. Others, me already defensive and on the back foot, considered at the point where me too became a fullblooded witch hunt.
Barry Weiss put it bluntly in a headline for the New York Times. Aziz Ansari is guilty of not being a mind readader. You had an unpleasant date and you did not leave. That is on you. Andsari hadn't done anything wrong. And from there, it was only a small logical leap to conclude CK hadn't either. With every spurious allegation, it became easier to believe CK wasn't a perpetrator, but the victim of cancel culture, drowned in the tsunami of Me, too.
Now, it makes me quite ashamed writing this now and saying it out loud. Going over these old articles, it's clear how defensive and angry I was. Driver's statement about Damon is far more reasonable than what the headlines suggested and how I felt at the time. As for Aziz, many supporters of Me Too questioned whether the story trivialized the movement and more serious forms of sexual abuse.
There was a really interesting conversation happening. if I had actually tried to listen instead of having a massive sulk. What is a nonverbal cue? I I this may be something that young women discuss. We know the difference between a rapist, a workplace harasser, and an Aziz andsari. That doesn't mean we have to be happy about any of them.
The Washington Post literally said, "Babe's Aziz Ansari piece was a gift to anyone who wants to derail me, too." Hey, that's me. But if this video is going to be of any use to anyone, I need to be honest about my genuine reactions and feelings at the time. I had total Louis blinders on.
On a fundamental level, I just sort of refused to believe he did anything that wrong because what would that say about Louie? And more importantly, what would that say about me? So, I went on the attack. Anyone who didn't side with CK or acknowledged the complications of what he did, I deemed a traitor. I vividly recall feeling my jaw tighten when I watched Steven Colbear address the allegations on late night.
Also, for those of you tuning in to see my interview with Louis CK tonight, I have some bad news. Then I have some really bad news. Louie canled his appearance here tonight because the New York Times broke this story today. Five women are accusing Lily CK of sexual misconduct. When reached for comment, Jesus said, "I don't want to hear about it. I was a big fan.
" I cannot tell you how furious this made me. Steven Colbear had known CK for decades. Louie hired him on the Dana Carvey show in the mid '9s, effectively giving him his break. All that history, and Colbear just palmed it off with a lazy joke and moved on. I thought it was utterly spineless. I mean, that's why I'd do anything for those guys.
Now, to be honest, uh I still stand by this. This was weak, vacant comedy from someone who could have offered some guidance. He could have at least acknowledged the confusion he and many of CK's fans, me, must have been feeling. But it also shows how personally invested I was in Louis innocence and how furious I became when people I thought would defend him the way I thought he deserved to be defended didn't.
Now, I'm not saying Me Too was perfect. Louis cancellation was sudden and there was very little opportunity, especially in the mainstream media, for honest discussion or an opposing opinion without those sharpened pitchforks being thrust in your direction. Pamela Adelon, one of CK's closest collaborators who cut ties with him after his cancellation, said, "I wanted the world to calm down. I wanted a conversation to happen." It was another example of extremism happening in my lifetime.
Gabby Hoffman, who worked with CK on Louie, reaffirmed this. Cancel culture nonsense is hugely problematic, criticizing the way it doesn't allow for sitting in the discomfort of the middle or having conversations in a civil and understanding way. What the hell are you guys doing anyway? I don't know. [Music] Looking back, you can see how what Louis did drifts more and more into the background.
I wasn't investigating CK's behavior or internalizing what he did. I was reacting to the culture, placing his behavior on a weird predatory spectrum and concluding he hadn't done anything that wrong. What honesty moment? And this is something I'm going to come back to. I never really read the article. I skimmed it once angrily, poked as many holes in the accusers accounts as possible, gave Louis as favorable an interpretation as I could manage, then piggybacked off podcasters like Joe Rogan who were looking to defend him.
Yes, I comedy without errors turned to Joseph Rogan, the bastion of journalism. Even the most staunch CK supporter would have to admit what Louie did is complicated. There are power dynamics, the blurred lines of working in the comedy and entertainment industry, a nuanced interpretation of consent. To understand what he did, you need to dig into the article to figure out the subtleties of CK's misconduct.
I willingly, consciously didn't do this. And although I can understand why, it was obviously the wrong thing to do. I made a huge tiny mistake. To fans of CK, I doubt this history is providing any new information, but it's important to set up this context discussing what he did. This video has nothing to do with comparing CK's behavior to Weinstein or Cosby. It must be looked at in isolation.
I continued watching Louie into my mid20ies, but his comedy never yielded the same laughs. The feeling of comfort and inspiration replaced by quiet queasiness. I watched his comeback special sincerely when it released on his website. If it's any consolation, I didn't buy it. I torrented it. Well done me.
I found the routine addressing the scandal funny, particularly his impression of Obama. My conclusion was Louis's conclusion. He didn't do anything that bad. When he released new comedy specials, I would watch them guilty and then forget about them. When I started this YouTube channel, Louie presented a consistent conundrum.
I didn't feel comfortable talking about him at length, but I would place short clips of him into videos, suggesting a tentative alliance. In late 2022, I saw an interview pop up of Louisie on the Joe Rogan Experience promoting his film Fourth of July. Other than his standup, it was the first time I'd heard him speak since his cancellation. I was amazed how just seeing his face with those big clunky headphones made me realize how unresolved my feelings were towards him.
love and admiration, but also confusion, guilt, and betrayal all at the same time. Over the past year, I finally tried to get to the bottom of it. I've revisited all of Louis's material, his cancellation, response, and comeback to see if I can put my doubts to rest. Does Louie deserve to be re-mbbraced, or is it time to move on? Who is Louis? Did we ever really know him at all? [Music] Whoa. Woo. Yeah.
Who's up for round two? Let's quickly go over the four incidents in the article to bring everyone up to speed. In the late 90s, working at the Chris Rock Show, CK repeatedly asked a female colleague if he could masturbate in front of her. The woman was in her early 20s while CK was in his 30s and higher up the hierarchy as a writer producer.
The woman agreed, but later said she regretted it, describing sitting in CK's office while he masturbated in his desk chair. Other colleagues just outside the door. In 2002, upandcoming comedy duo Damon Goodman and Julia Wallov landed a big break performing at the US Comedy Arts Festival in Aspen. CK invited them to hang out in his hotel room after a show.
They said his intentions seemed colleial. As soon as they sat down, still wrapped in their winter jackets and hats, CK asked if he could take out his penis. He proceeded to take his clothes off and start masturbating. The women said they were paralyzed. After CK ejaculated on his stomach, they fled.
After telling others about the incident the next day, they understood that CK's manager, Dave Becky, wanted them to stop telling people about the encounter. The women's managers said Mr. Becky was upset that they were talking openly about the incident. They felt they had been warned to stop talking. In 2003, Abby Shakner, a writer, illustrator, and performer, met CK on the comedy scene.
Shaknner called CK with an invitation to her show, at which point CK, who was at work in his office for Cedric the Entertainer, started masturbating. She said she heard the blinds coming down. Then he slowly started telling her his sexual fantasies, breathing heavily and talking softly. The call went on for several minutes, even though Shakner was definitely not encouraging it. Gross.
This interaction left her dispirited and very ashamed and was one of the reasons she stopped pursuing comedy. In 2005, Rebecca Corey was working as a performer and producer on a television pilot, a big step in her career. CK appearing as a guest star leaned close to her face and asked if they could go to her dressing room so he could masturbate in front of her. Cory, stunned and angry, declined and later said she regretted not halting the production of the show.
In many of the incidents, the women were in a lower position of power relative to CK. Shakner was a new and inexperienced comedian. Goodman and Wallov were up and cominging comedians. The woman on the Chris Rock show was literally working under CK directly saying he abused his power.
In all the incidents, CK exploited a culture that incentivized the women to stay silent. Cory didn't want to shut down the production of a show, not knowing how it might affect her career. All the other women were either warned or instinctively knew talking about CK's behavior could negatively impact their careers.
Even though CK wasn't the global force he became, he was still wellconed and respected within the comedy scene and entertainment industry. But I have to give some leniency here because okay, the main argument CK's fans used to defend him was and continues to be Louis got consent cuz what did he do wrong? Ask for consent for non-cont and like what are you talking about? Yes, he also asked.
I mean I think that was and they said okay when people said no, he didn't do it. It's not like he made people do it if they didn't say yes. He asked questions and a lot of people don't know this. I don't think he wanted to defend every single aspect of it, but as far as I know, he didn't. No one said no and then he did it anyway. That's what I've That's all I've ever heard.
And he got verbal consent. May I do this? Yes, you may. Okay, I'm going to do it. Okay. [ __ ] you. It's usually the top comment under any video related to CK's misconduct. It makes it much easier to argue CK's behavior was a clumsy misunderstanding instead of anything truly dangerous, which is true, but it's still worth investigating the power dynamics between And did they consent to doing this? They said they did not consent.
Wait, what? In 2002, Chicago Demig and Julia Wolof landed their big break. As soon as they sat down, still wrapped in their winter jackets and hats, Louis CK asked if he could take out his penis, they laughed it off. He proceeded to take all of his clothes off and get completely naked and start masturbating.
Oh dear. In the Aspen story, CK asked if he could get his penis out. The women laughed, thinking it was a joke. They didn't reply yes or no. Before they could answer, CK took off all his clothes and started masturbating. There was no consent. That's not even including a phone call with Abby Shaknner.
So why does everyone think he these stories are true? At the time, I said to myself that what I did was okay because I never showed a woman my dick without asking first, which is also true. Oh dear me. Right. Okay. [ __ ] Right. Okay.
The biggest reason myself and so many others believe Louie received consent was because his apology heavily implies he did. I mean, he pretty much says it. CK opens the apology by saying point blank, "These stories are true." This makes it clear he is not disputing the truth. He is pleading guilty. He did this. It sets the tone for the entire apology.
The problem is in the very next sentence, CK does dispute the truth, creating another truth similar but entirely different to what was written in the article. These stories are true. At the time, I said to myself that what I did was okay because I never showed a woman my dick without asking first, which is also true. What the [ __ ] It's hard to quantify the amount of damage and misinformation the sentence has caused.
Yes, he asked if he could get his dick out. What he conveniently ignores is he didn't get a response. When CK says, which is also true, he cements this reality, joining these women's stories and his version of events together. But they are not the same.
CK's fans, me again, were so busy fawning over him, admitting these stories were true, we didn't realize he was twisting the truth to make us see him more favorably. What I remember about CK's apology was how easy it was to read in his voice. the simple word choice and sentence structure. It had the informal yet sincere tone he had mastered in his standup.
But once you look past this, you can see how CK's phrasing continually downplays what he's done. When CK says, "When you have power over another person, asking them to look at your dick isn't a question, it's a predicament for them." It sounds authentic.
The word predicament stands out as a very ck touch, but it also happens to sound a hell of a lot better than a problem, or deal, or potentially traumatic experience. The same thing can be said about the phrase asking them to look at your dick. Using dick instead of penis makes it seem less formal and less serious. There's also a fairly humongous difference between getting them to look at his penis and stripping totally naked and masturbating to completion while they're still wearing puffer jackets and bobble top beanies. asking them to look at your penis.
It's like he's installed it in the [ __ ] Lou. Come ladies, look at my fallace next to the Vangor. This also makes him not saying sorry more suspicious. He must have thought about apologizing before opting for I have been remorseful of my actions, which out of the whole statement reads the most like a politician.
Maybe saying sorry point blank was too clear an admission of guilt. Or maybe, which is more troubling, he didn't think he did anything that wrong. If you think I'm being pedantic or CK didn't intend any of this, you're ignoring he spent his entire career recreating the feeling of casual conversation, subtly rewarding sentences to change their impact and meaning.
We'll talk about this more in a bit, but suffice to say, if Nerd Writer can spend 7 minutes breaking down a 207word joke, it's fair to at least be skeptical of the most important document CK's ever written. What's nearly unique about the Louis CK story is that there is no factual dispute at the heart of this story. You can see how effectively this works.
To fans of CK, how many discussions have you had focusing on CK getting consent to make his behavior seem less egregious? I know I certainly did, and these bloody schmucks did, too. The most glaring example of this misinformation comes from Ari Shafir who actually corrected comedian Finn Taylor who had the story right.
And he did this thing about Louis and he goes he asked some some some women if he could do that and they said no and I guess he did it anyway. And I saw him afterwards like hey great special same thing as the other one but like just so you know that's not the facts are wrong. Do what you want just like that rabbi told me but like they did say yes. He goes oh [ __ ] And to his credit he changed it. Changed he was like I didn't want to get it wrong. So he changed it.
made a still a funny joke, but like let me get the facts right. Definitely. Yes. I'm glad we have Ahri Shafi, the greatest fact checker in human history. And I'm so sorry you lost that fly fishing competition. Let me get the facts right. Definitely.
Definitely. Definitely. If I had a criticism of the Times article, it needed to be more explicit about the lack of consent. It says so. Oh, lol. It doesn't say it at all. Considering consent became the talking point following the article, the failure to make this clear, especially in the Aspen story, was a massive oversight. Dumb. Really dumb.
Julia Wallof had to make a second statement, literally titled, "I didn't consent to Louis CK masturbating in front of me." After Mark Breeslin, owner of the aptly titled comedy club Yuck Yucks, justified booking CK by repeatedly saying he received consent. And because his grandfather was a Hungarian Jew who escaped the Nazis.
What? Contrary to Brelin's accounting, what CK did was not done with consent, we never agreed nor asked him to take all his clothes off and masturbate to completion in front of us. But it didn't matter because the exciting part for him was the fear on our faces.
Since Brelin seems to take pride in his Judaism, he should know that four of the five women from the Times article are Jewish. The author's attempt to convince himself and the Jewish community of supporting CK by saying he is part Jewish is shameful. On the other hand, I've talked about how I had blinders on. I'm sure people like Rogan or myself or the Lord of Gahul would have found another way to downplay what CK did in a sort of funny sad way.
The interview that explicitly says CK didn't get consent. 26,000 views. Holy moro, Batman. People really do want to figure out the truth. still has the top comment. At least he had the balls to say it's true rather than to insult the women and claim it's all false. Ah, yes, great point. He certainly had the balls to say it's true. He definitely didn't have the balls to say it was false.
Okay, then that seems really dark. No, it's not dark. You're misunderstanding me, bro. I think I am. Yeah, you are. Because if the girl said no, then the answer obviously is no. But the thing is is she's not going to say no. She would never say no because of the implication. Well, this is a [ __ ] start.
At this point, I've been researching for a full half day, and I've already found information that makes CK look uh dodgy. Shall we keep pulling the thread on this bloody jumper? Run away. Run away. There's a persistent idea from CK fans that he wouldn't have performed these acts without some degree of mutual attraction, particularly in the Aspen story.
The second top comment on that ABC video is, "What did they wait for him to finish then leave? God, they must have been loving it. [Music] To say Goodman and Wallof going to CK's hotel room meant there was something on the cards is taking for granted the blurred lines of working comedians. As comedian Judy Gold says, "This response usually comes from people who don't live on the road.
I've spent tons of hours in other comics hotel rooms hanging out, watching movies, talking, writing, and just being homesick. Why is that so hard for people to understand?" And to those genuine twits who say the women should have left as soon as CK started masturbating, uh, literally victim blaming, I mean, textbook. This also hugely underestimates how we respond to stress or threats.
There is a stack of research about this, but to cut to the chase, other than fight or flight, a very common response is freeze, where the victim goes into a state of shock and dissociation, almost as if they were paralyzed. Turns out, Wallivan Goodman didn't act rationally when Louis CK stripped and masturbated so quickly it was as if he was trying to get into the [ __ ] Guinness Book of World Records.
I would love him to come out and go, "Look, yeah, I [ __ ] up badly. I misread it. Um, I really thought that they were on the same wavelength and it's like I would love to know that. I don't even there's no way that he could in hindsight honestly have thought that they were on the same wavelength un like in the moment he could have tricked himself into thinking that way. Sure.
After like once it happens and they run out of the room and all like that's why you silence them. Yeah. You know what I mean? That's why your manager because you know afterwards that they didn't feel good about it. Yeah. Regarding the other incidents, Abby Shakner clearly wasn't reciprocating. There is a shade more gray with the woman on the Chris Rock show, but it's tainted by her job being on the line if she didn't reciprocate the way CK wanted.
The most illuminating example comes from Rebecca Corey, who recalled in his very late apology phone call how CK said, "I used to misread people back then." This comment confounded Cory because CK was implying she had done something to invite his behavior. This gets to the flaming hot core of how CK's fans might want to excuse his behavior. Turns out CK is trying to do it too, to the woman he's done it to.
When CK tells Cory he misread her, he's looking to give himself an out, that his feelings were reciprocated in some way. He made an innocent mistake. But his behavior suggests he is propositioning women he really didn't know, which is much stranger and more threatening. In Aspen, CK called out, "Which one is Dana and which one is Julia?" as they ran out of the room.
It's also reinforced by CK's initial response to Cory's rejection. His face got red and he told me he had issues. This isn't a response of a guy misreading a situation but knowingly overstepping a boundary. How on earth do you misread asking to masturbate in front of someone at work anyway? Like when Cory said no.
Was CK like, "Oh, oh, I I I misread it." Oh, egg on my face. I thought you were giving me that masturbate in your dressing room vibe. Ah, well, innocent mistake. See you at lunch. Like my friend my friend Sovereign said to me, she said, "What it comes down to is that no one should be asked if they want to see your dick when they walk into work.
" That just thinking about it like that should open up an entire window of of empathy to what a lot of women have to deal with every day walking into toxic male work environments. [Music] This seems obvious but gets overlooked. At the time of every incident reported by the Times, Louie was married. People have defended him by saying he was going through a divorce, but that doesn't make sense unless he was signing his divorce papers at the same time he was cutting his wedding cake. CK married in 1995 and divorced in 2008. The Chris Rock Show
started airing in February 1997. So CK was masturbating in front of a female co-orker only a couple years after he was married. During Aspen, CK's wife was either pregnant or just given birth to their first child. This makes Goodman and Wallof's belief that CK's invitation to his room was colleial more believable.
In his apology statement, CK's manager, Dave Becky, said this was the initial cause for concern, hearing Goodman and Wallof talking about what happened, interpreting it as two women telling a story about a sexual encounter with a then married Louie. Very clever, Dave.
In 2005, CK's wife was pregnant with their second daughter, which Cory said to him directly. Just for a bit of fun, let's put this in the context of his standup. At the time, CK was finding his voice as a flawed but conscientious father, the put upon husband who ultimately does the right thing. Doesn't knowing he was going behind his wife's back performing sexual acts in front of other women, even if they were consensual, make his ring slightly hollow, especially when he continually casts himself as the victim.
Take One Night Stand, released the same year he propositioned Cory. I'm very happy. I'm married and I love my wife. I love her very much. My wife hates me. She [ __ ] hates me. She hates me so much. Like that's what she does. Like if you ask her, "What did you do today?" I [ __ ] hate that guy.
That's what I did today. I hate Louis. I wonder why. Or two years later in Shameless where he basically calls his wife lazy despite her raising their kids. I can't die. I got two kids and my wife doesn't [ __ ] work so I don't get to die. I can't die. I love her, but she's a painter. Great. Paint's a dollar. Take some pressure off, please.
But so what about when he went on national radio to rag on his wife about him going on tour? Yeah, I don't have a TV job right now, so that's that's my income. And I showed it to her and she's like, "Yeah, great. So, you're going out of town, leaving me with the kids?" I'm like, "Fuck you. You How much money do you make? Would you rather starve to death and [ __ ] let the kids get skinny, you [ __ ] ungrateful [ __ ] Yeah. I wonder why she didn't like you going out of town. H I can't put my finger on it.
It's well known CK's marriage wasn't happy. It was a regular source of comedy before and after his divorce. My wife and I, we've been we've been married for about 9 years now, so we're almost done. Cheating on your wife isn't illegal or criminal, but I find this behavior gross and upsetting.
It strips away a lot of the trust we had in CK as a performer. Here's a painting by CK's ex-wife titled Bearded Man. Isn't it interesting to know how she saw him? I wonder if his behavior is part of what made his marriage so difficult to begin with. And like I'm married now and my friends will say like, "Is it hard to uh be monogamous? Does it take willpower?" No, I could do that. That's easy.
[Music] This is where things get uh really [ __ ] A lot of evidence suggests there are many other women who haven't come forward. In the Times article, Cory remembers CK's apology. When he phoned her, he said he was sorry for shoving her in a bathroom. Cory replied that he had never done that, but had instead asked to masturbate in front of her. This, to start, is really [ __ ] ominous.
That CK couldn't remember which incident connected to which woman says a loss about how many people he potentially did this to, and how little he knew or cared about each of them. To misremember what he did to Cory to such a degree demonstrates a huge lack of empathy. Also, shoving implies physical contact. Not good.
Tignitaro, who proved a key figure in CK's cancellation, said at the end of the Times article, "They were standing in support of those with the courage to speak up against such a powerful figure, as well as the multitude of women still out there not quite ready to share their nightmares.
" Jesus, like I said, I know so many of the people, there's other people, not everybody was in that that article that that um that he's done this to. And so to to know firsthand the pain and destruction that um yeah just it what it what's what it's done to other people is uh it it's that's really really sad. Nataro also referred to an incident before the pilot of One Mississippi which CK and Dave Becky were executive producers on.
Dave, what are you doing back here? The pilot aired November 2015, so it probably occurred 2014, 2015 before we even shot the pilot. I had seen um sides of him that I had not seen before and and I shared that with other people and that's when I started hearing stories about the you know behavior. Nataro hasn't expanded on what that incident was. However, they heavily imply an episode of One Mississippi where an executive starts masturbating under a desk happened to someone they knew.
Were you sending a message to Louis CK with this specific episode? Every story on One Mississippi is based in truth and it's not necessarily my truth, but it's somebody's truth and something that somebody experienced or knew of the experience happening. And we wanted to recreate that because people seem to feel like this was um hard to believe that this sort of behavior would happen because it's like what is somebody's motivation there? And it's like it's not, you know, it's not somebody interested in somebody.
It's not somebody flirting. Um it's it's something beyond that. It's aboutism. It's about power. It's power. It's abuse. And it's it's not it's It's It's gross. It's disgusting. Yeah. A 2015 Defamer article, Louis CK will call you up to talk about his alle what the [ __ ] made several more anonymous reports, many of which were not in the Times article.
I've heard stories about his propensity for whipping it out and jerking off in front of women at inappropriate times. Dinner, table, bar. Just quick, but it's important. Defamer was owned by Gawker, a blog and media company which made the first published accusations against CK in 2012. Featuring an anonymous report which ended up closely resembling the Aspen story.
Deeply flawed and insanely hypocritical, Gawker went bankrupt in an invasion of privacy lawsuit in 2016 after posting portions of a Hulk Hogan sex tape online. Yeah, it's crazy. Gawker wasn't the gold standard in journalistic ethics. In fact, they seem to have no standards. A couple examples being outing Silicon Valley venture capitalist Peter Theel as gay without his consent and creating an app that allowed users to post celebrity locations in near real time, evaporating their privacy and potentially setting them up for harassment.
Kristen Bell and her kid are at the 400 p.m. showing of How to Train Your Dragon at the Arklight and it goes right on our map instantly. So that when Kristen Bell and her kid come out of the movies, there are a dozen sociopaths waiting for them. I don't think that's likely.
Why not? As part of their noble citizen journalism, they failed to do any fact-checking, often posting false, potentially slanderous information. An example directly relevant to CK is in both articles, which say CK blocks the door, stopping Goodman and Wallof from leaving. This detail never made the Times, presumably because it's false yet persists today. Although it is a good litmus test to see who read the article.
So yeah, Gawk was more often frothy women's day dog shits than actual journalism. But they were also invaluable in getting CK's behavior into the public discourse. To quote something Yoga with Adrien might say, "It is what it is." It's unfair to assume every rumor about CK is true.
However, I would like to laser in on one story from the Defamer article not included in the Times because it seems to be indirectly verified by CK himself. Note, this story has similarities to Aspen, but the article makes clear it's a different event. Another source relayed a story about a similar incident at an afterparty at the Just for Laughs Comedy Festival in Montreal several years ago.
The comedian allegedly took two women up to his room, but at some point they barged out, claiming he had started masturbating in front of them without warning. YouTuber Teft Patton, with the help of Redditor Homeless Fez. Fezes are cool.
Found a clip on the Opian Anthony show from 2007 where CK tells a remarkably similar story. I was in Montreal once and I met these two really cool, sexy, uh, hashmoking chicks. Wow. And, uh, they came up to me after a show and they said, uh, you want to hang out? At the time, my wife and I were were dating and we were we were living together, but she had moved out, so we were kind of like half broken up. Uh oh.
It was kind of like a vague Oh, you want an on again off again before you got married? Yeah. Yeah, I did. But so I we were in Montreal and these girls came up to me and said, "You want to hang out after the show?" And I'm like, "I don't no cuz I don't like hanging out. I don't like going out." And I said, "What do you mean hang out?" They're like, "We're going to go dancing." I'm like, "No, I'm not doing that." And they're like, "We're two hot girls.
Don't you want to go dancing with us?" I'm like, "I'd love to have hang out with two hot girls, but not I'm not going to a dance club." So I said, "Just come to my hotel." Oh, in the bar? No, in my room. You have to come to my room. come to my hotel room or else I'm just not interested at all. Yeah. And I didn't care. So they they were like, "Uh." And then they left.
And then I get a call in my hotel room. We're here. Come downstairs. We're going to take you dancing. I'm I'm not going anywhere. And they couldn't stop coming. So they came up to my room and they start having a drink and they start telling me that they're lesbians and that they're going to have a threesome.
And some somehow amazingly I blurt out, "Oh, yeah. Well, my girlfriend lives with me, but she moved out and oh, really?" And they hear about a woman, so they're interested. What? So, you guys are broken up? Yeah, but I think we're probably going to get married. That's what I said to them. And they go, "Well, then why are you why do you have us in your room and we're having to cuz she's not living with me now." But you just said you're going to get married. Well, yeah, I love her. And they just they both start, you're
they start screaming, "You're a pig. You're disgusting pig. You blew it. You love her. You're going to marry her and you're two in here with two really sexy girls about to have a threesome. And I'm like, "Yeah, please just uh do what you're" And then they left. Yeah, that was it. If I could have kept my mouth shut. Yeah.
If I could have kept my mouth shut, that was a powerful night of my life. What the [ __ ] is this? Uh, okay. Firstly, CK's story makes me more inclined to believe this was a separate event to Aspen. We have two independent sources talking about an incident where Louis CK took two women who weren't comedians to a hotel room in Montreal.
So, let's play a sad game of spot the difference. Whose story is more believable? This won't surprise you, but I think CK's story has the twang of [ __ ] The women don't act consistently. They're so keen to sleep with CK, he was able to coax them to his room. Yet, when he blurts out he's going to marry the woman he's not even with, they lose the buzz and leave.
Really? Also, the whole story finds CK creating this image of himself as a sort of [ __ ] badass. He doesn't care how much these women are coming on to him. He doesn't want to go dancing. He'd rather go to bed. Man, he's so cool and aloof like a bald ginger Ryan godzling in the place beyond the pines.
Yet, when they're in the room together, he can't stop himself from confessing his love for his girlfriend. [ __ ] off. This is also where he says the most patronizing line about women. Oh, yeah. Well, my girlfriend lives with me, but she moved out and Oh, really? And they hear about a woman, so they're interested. Ah, yes.
The feminist comedian Louis CK, who thinks all women are me cats, who stand upright when they hear mention of one of their own. Another woman? Do tell more fine, sir. My interest has been peaked. There's also difficulty pinning down when CK's version of the story takes place. He is vague. First saying he and his wife were dating before changing it to living together.
At the time, my wife and I were were dating and we were we were living together, but she had moved out. So, we were kind of like half broken up. Uh-oh. Let's put our Sherlock Holmes hats on, shall we? Louie married Alex Bailey in 1995. I got married when I was 28, divorced when I was 42. Louisie was born 12th September 1967.
So yeah, the math checks out. According to an interview CK gave to the Boston Globe, CK married Bailey very shortly after beginning a relationship with her. He first met her in 1985 at a New Year's Eve party, which just sounds so romantic and lovely. However, they didn't start dating until 10 years later after Bailey moved to New York. She didn't flee.
The bar is so low. Let's do the logistics. CK began a relationship and married Alex Bailey in 1995. This means in order for the story to happen according to CK's version of events, he started dating, moved in with, half broke up with, and then married Bailey all within the same year. Busy guy.
What makes this more confusing is I can't find any evidence of CK performing in Montreal in 1995. Montreal's flagship event for standup is or was or is the Just for Laughs Comedy Festival. Yet, he's not on the lineup of the 1995 comedy gala, nor in any articles about the festival.
To give a marker of how CK's career is going, in 1995, he headlines the young comedian stand-up special for HBO alongside Gary Chandling, Dave Chappelle, and David. He's doing well. I don't quite understand why he would be gigging in Montreal if he wasn't attending the festival. This is made more unlikely by the fact he spent part of 1995 working on Late Night with David Letterman, roosting him in New York.
Now, it's not impossible. CK was a touring comic, and records of performances in this period are not great. But the simpler and more logical explanation is this occurred during the 2003 Just for Laughs Comedy Festival. There's footage of him performing. It's consistent with the anonymous source, and it's also during his most active exhibitionist years.
Married with a young daughter, it makes sense why CK would lie about this. It's suspicious that when rumors were no doubt circulating about CK masturbating in front of two women in a hotel room potentially twice in two years, he is telling a very similar story, but one which makes him look like a good guy. I thought this was shady only knowing about Aspen.
And to be fair, it shares enough similarities that it could be a mutation of the same story. But the fact it takes place in the same location with two women who weren't comedians is Strange. Really strange. As Tina Walton 7703 puts it, I don't think he is telling the story coincidentally. I think this is calculated subtifuge.
He is putting out a similar but not story as a smokeokc screen. So next time anyone would hear the rumors, they could think, "No, that's not true. I heard him tell a story about what really happened." Bloody hell. What the [ __ ] is going on? Hello. How about you, mate? What's your problem? Me? I don't I don't have a problem.
Oh, okay. Denial. [Music] In his apology, CK states, "I disabled them from sharing their story because people who look up to me didn't want to hear it. I didn't think that I was doing any of that because my position allowed me not to think about it." Did it? This ignores that CK for years said these stories were nothing.
literally not real. Liar. When Gawker released the article in 2012, Seiko's publicist agreed to ask him about the incident. When we reached out to the extremely powerful manager, "Ooh, hello Dave Becky. Somebody's becoming a bit culpable." He put the comedian's publicist in touch with us.
The publicist agrees to ask CK about the incident. Weeks went by and we heard nothing. When we followed up, he replied, "Sorry for the delay, but I never heard back from him." The 2015 Defamer article saw CK again refuse to comment. Vulture mentioned this article directly to CK in 2016, to which he replied, "No, it wasn't even a yes or no question. No, I don't care about that. That's nothing to me. That's not real.
" But he does feel at liberty to discuss his anger that Horus and Pete was running at a loss, hurting his chances at the Emmys. Oh no. Having to disabuse people of this thing could really hurt me with something like the Emmys if people perceived the show as a dead project. I took that pretty [ __ ] personally. This really is the world's smallest violin. See, fair play to David Machess Marquez.
Sorry for doubling down on the rumors. But look how CK makes his answer look like he has the moral high ground. Well, you can't touch stuff like that. There's one more thing I want to say about this and it's important, is it? If you need your public profile to be all positive, you're sick in the head.
I do the work I do and what happens next I can't look after. So my thing is I try to speak to the work whenever I can, just to the work and not my life. Well, at least he realized there was something he shouldn't touch in public. Tignaro mentions the incident to the Daily Beast in August 2017. Going on to say CK should handle the allegations. The following month, and now mere weeks before the Times article dropped, CK playing to form, unequivocally denied the allegations and even implied Nataro was being an uncouthed little attention seeker, mentioning such an unfounded
rumor to the press. Nice. I don't know why she said the thing she said. This is a voice I'm imagining he's doing. I don't think talking about that stuff in the press and having conversations over press lanes is a good idea. If you actually participate in a rumor, you make it bigger and you make it real. Make what real, Louie? Reality.
You wouldn't want that, would you? Even when the Times reached out to CK about the article, he refused to comment. I'm assuming in the hopes it would miraculously blow over. This is my speculation, but it is so bloody obvious CK was never going to address this. The only reason he responded to the Times was because it would be career suicide not to. See, Louis doesn't respond to stuff like this. Although, on this one, he may have to. This is a very big story.
I mean, it's front page of the papers. You can't not You can't not respond to it. Okay. So, CK was denying the rumors aggressively in public, but maybe he would be more open about it in private. Well, no. Mark Maron has a fabled history with CK. They started performing standup around the same time.
They had a begrudging, thorny, but always loving friendship. Their conversation on WTF in 2010 focused on their history and they shared old stories. It was genuinely beautiful and made me cry and was chosen by Slaces the best. Anyway, CK lied to Marin's face about it for years and I would ask him about it.
I I I would say what this this story about you forcing, you know, these women to to watch you jerk off. What is What is that? Is that is that true? He goes, "No, it's it's not true. It's not real. It's a rumor. And I would say, "Well, are you going to address it somehow? Do you you to handle it to get out from under it whenever it shows up?" He goes, "No, I can't. I can't do that. It'll give it life. It'll give it air.
" And that that was the conversation. Jim Norton had a long-standing friendship with CK. He co-hosted various shows on Sirius XM where CK was a frequent guest. They always seemed like really good mates, and Norton even made several of And I I won't give any specifics away or anything that was said to me.
I will only say that in the last couple of years I have asked if it was true and I was told it was not true more than once. Then we have CK I'm doing air quotes handling these matters in private. We of course have the sorry for shoving you into a bathroom whoopsie phone call to Rebecca Corey. Whoops. There's also a Facebook message to Abby Shackner in 2009.
According to the Guardian, CK wrote her a message 3 days before FX announced a deal for CK to produce, direct, and star in Louie. Last time I talked to you ended in a sorted fashion. That was a bad time in my life and I'm sorry. Oh, it really seems like he's making some pro. Anyway, I'm all better now. Wee. Come on. This can't be real. I actually contacted the Guardian to doublech checkck this was real.
They never responded, but I mean, it's in quotes. He actually said in an apology message. Anyway, I'm all better now. Wee, who the [ __ ] is this guy? At a glance, if you're blind and squinting, these apologies seem sincere, but they are clearly intended to cover his back as he became a bigger name.
This becomes way worse when you consider how damaging CK's very active silence was to the women he had wronged. And take Jen Kirkman. She's talked about three occasions where CK's behavior was perverted and creepy towards her. Two in the early 2000s where he described his sexual thoughts to her in a car and insinuated he wanted to masturbate in front of her at a bar and a later event where he put his hand on the back of her neck at a comedy club.
According to Defamer, this happened in the second half of 2014, but this date has never been confirmed by Kirkman. I'm not saying this to imply there was any physical abuse, but he just sort of like put his hand on the back of my neck and was like, "I'm going to [ __ ] you someday." Something like that. Let's just add these to the pile of really dodged stories not included in the Times article.
In her podcast in 2015, Kirkman vented about being a woman in comedy and heavily alluded to CK's behavior. A very famous comic. He is probably at Cosby level at this point. He is lauded as a genius. He is a basically a French filmmaker at this point. Um, you know, new new material every year. He's a known perve. And uh there's a lockdown on talking about him.
And this guy didn't rape me, but he made a certain difficult decision to go on tour with him really hard because I knew if I did, I would get more of the same weird treatment I've been getting from him. And it was really [ __ ] up. For months afterwards, she was the subject of relentless media scrutiny.
So then Jezebel does all this [ __ ] guessing who they think it is, which I never said who. I started getting like hate mail, all this stuff, like you're not talented. Why do you got to take this person down? That was the first day of like the end of my life. Like it just snowballed after that. And surely this is where good guy Louis steps in to clear the air to save the day. Uh, no. What did CK do to help? Absolute zero. Nothing. A big fat goose egg.
In fact, why not use your daughters to guilt trip Kirkman into staying silent? That'll go down a treat. Louis at one point was like, "Email me. Like, call me." And I was like, I knew what it was about. And I was like, "No, we have to have this discussion over email." And he's like, "Look, I know what I did to you." And he named all the things.
I said, ' Do you want to make a joint statement with me then? Like, that would really help if you could just be like, Jen and I talked. Yes, I did say these things. She's cool and I never did this to anyone else. He's like, I can't. And I didn't see that as a red flag. He's like, I've just learned to handle this stuff.
This is your first time going through it, but like you don't talk to the media ever, and like I have daughters. And I was like, you're right, your daughter's like, totally right. He's like, just let this go and it'll go away. Let's put the cherry on top of this narcissist Sunday. In the Defamer article, a comedian going under the name Jason sent CK an email.
Hey, could you please stop assaulting female comics? It's really uncomfortable to have to ask your hero to stop taking his penis out in front of uninterested and frightened girls. CK responded asking if they could call. Huh, it's funny CK responded to an email about assault when all he'd ever done was misconduct people. Silly goose. Jason described their conversation as stilted and nonsubstantive.
His interpretation was that CK was sizing him up to find out what he had heard. He left the conversation under the impression the two would speak again soon. They never did. Other than the weirdness of CK calling Jason up like he's veto Corleone, it sounds like CK was probing Jason to see if he had any hard evidence.
The phrase uninterested and frightened girls may have been cause for concern. After their conversation, CK considered it not worth the worry and moved on to making more of his excellent standup comedy. Huzah. Shall we return to CK's apology? My position allowed me not to think about it. It should really read, "My position allowed me to think about it. Guilty apologized to the women I'd wronged. Doesn't matter who I did what to." Oh, whoops. Whoopsy.
Say to at least one woman to keep everything on the DL. Remember to mention my kids to sweeten the deal. conclude I was king of the jungle and tell any public-f facing organization that the women were talking a total load of wank while they get savaged by the media. Oh, that doesn't quite read as well, does it? Shame.
CK wants to appear totally unaware. His status and power shielding him from any knowledge of what he had done, but he was blatantly aware of the damage he had caused and was still actively causing. What CK did is one thing, but the lengths he went to hide and deny it is, well, I don't want to say it's worse than what he did, but it's really, really bad. Which seems to get forgotten.
CK supporters get so hung up on defending the axe themselves. I certainly was, that they don't really consider how his silence and denial collapses the trust we had in him. Jenna Freiedman summed it up perfectly in terms of why our perception of him changed. I don't think it's because of what he did, but because he denied it for two years.
If you were in this position of trutht teller and then you gaslight people, I think that seems to a lot of people like a bigger indiscretion than jerking off in front of women without their consent or tanking a lot of women's careers on your path to success.
CK has never responded to this behavior other than to vaguely say he's tried to run from the accusations. I learned yesterday the extent to which I left these women who admired me feeling badly about themselves and cautious around other men who would never have put them in that position. Oh, you learned that yesterday, did you, Louie? Yesterday. Well, at least they [ __ ] admired you.
[Music] Of all the theories, this is the worst, the weakest, dumbest, most angry, and irrational. I wouldn't bother talking about it, but I know there's at least a couple Louis stands waiting for me not to mention it, so they can call me gay in the comments.
The theory basically goes, "These women cancelled Louisie out of spite." CK was more talented and successful, and these untalented, unfunny female hacks wanted to bring him down. When Me Too came along, they saw their chance to go up the Hollywood ladder and kicked Louis to his watery grave while they latched onto the next greasy rung. [Music] Revenge. Lesbian Tignitaro is a key figure in Operation Cancel Louie.
Yes, it was lesbian Tignitaro who decided to make a big deal about it. There's a wild theory Nataro wanted revenge. Revenge. after CK plagiarized her short film Clown Service in an episode of SNL in April 2017. Nataro said to Variety she blamed her sister-in-law Zex, but let's not look at that. Her and CK also hadn't talked since 2015, but let's not look at that.
Selfish. Let's also not address that CK was largely responsible for launching Nataro's career. He recorded and released her breakthrough album Live on his website in 2012. Yeah, Nataro would want CK dead after introducing her to a broader audience. She wanted to be a niche comic on the periphery of success.
Let's not think about how conflicted and difficult her decision must have been to come forward or how she felt trapped by her association with him stealing a sketch that was in all likelihood written by SNL that CK performed. Just let me get another pin for my corkboard. It's all coming together.
Let's also not look at the tsunami of testimony saying every part of coming forward made these women's lives a nightmare, subjecting them to outrageous levels of hate and backlash. Oh, you wanted 5 minutes of fame, ladies. How about an eternity in hell? [Music] How about facing a torrent of abuse from thousands of people on YouTube and Twitter? I'm not calling it X.
X marks the TW Elon or your name forever being linked with an event you just want to forget. In her heart-wrenching article, Louie put me in a lose-lose situation. Rebecca Cory talks about the horrid repercussions of coming forward. I'd love to sum this up with a rainbow and butterfly sentiment about how this journey has enriched my life and brought me peace.
But the truth is, it's hell making the decision to speak out, and it's hell after the decision has been made. I've experienced vicious and swift backlash from women and men in and out of the comedy community. I've received death threats, been berated, judged, ridiculed, dismissed, shamed, and attacked. I knew making myself so vulnerable would bring scrutiny from the outside, but my personal life has also been damaged by my decision to tell the truth. Julia Wallov echoed this.
What if this happened to your daughter or son? How would you feel about them getting consistent hate mail from Louis CK supporters who tell them to kill themselves? Abby Shakner, who let's remember said her experience with CK was one of the reasons she left comedy, then had to face Dave Chappelle insulting her brittle ass spirit. As for their careers, man, they sure got a muchneeded boost.
They're cackling away in their Me Too towers, surrounded by the bones of all the men they've canled, while Harvey Weinstein hobbles about in a [ __ ] suit pouring them rosΓ©. Actually, this is a good time to add CK's defenders argue that he didn't have any real power in the comedy world when these incidents occurred, nullifying the argument that he affected their careers.
But they try to paint Louisie up, a stand-up comic, as if he's a producer director. Like, it is a conflict of interest. If you have a producer come to my room and they're like, "Hey, but another comedian at a festival, you you it's reasonable to think you might be [ __ ] because you're not on a different it's a power level. We're comedians. We don't work for a corporation together." In 2005, Lou was not what he is today.
People saying he was wielding. He had some power. He's a head writer. This was after his time on Conan, correct? Yeah. Yeah. He was he definitely had power in the business, but he wasn't the Louis that people know. Yeah. He's not um giving people shows, but this ignores how influential he became.
CK became a massive name encompassing a huge amount of the comedy and television world. His connection spreading over the industry like the tentacles of [ __ ] Cthulhu. He was connected to so many massive brands and was literally getting people their own shows. Likewise Dave Becky, a prolific manager and producer who to this day represents among others Kevin Hart, Bill Burr, and Amy Poler.
As CK and Becky's stature grew, any project associated with either of them would have these women's names quietly struck off the list. As Goodman and Wall explained, they took themselves out of the running for many projects Becky was involved in. We know immediately we can never even submit our material.
They didn't know if they could pitch themselves to to shows or projects that Dave Becky was attached to, which ended up being a lot of shows and projects cuz he ended up being kind of a kingmaker in the comedy world. This isn't even mentioning the stigma that comes from speaking out. Far from launching these women's careers, it's basically made them tainted goods.
Rebecca Cory talked about being put on an unspoken list that isn't just held by CK and Becky, but the industry at large. In 2022, now 5 years after doing a good thing, Cory is still suffering the consequences. Being on the one of the five women list absolutely affects potential opportunities and makes the Hollywood lemmings want to distance themselves from me.
While I know how hard it is to sell a show, being on the list is not helping. I wish people had more understanding as to how it's career suicide, especially in the corporate world. If you come out and accuse someone of sexual harassment, I mean, I went through it myself. If you come out and accuse someone who has more power, who brings money into the organization, the individual is fired, but you're painted with a scarlet letter. People stay away from you. And that's part that's career suicide.
If you gain a reputation as somebody who's like a squeaky wheel in this world, that cuts off your career at its knees. This theory that the women did this to get famous is the gunk at the bottom of the barrel. The idea is basically when Me Too cropped up, all these women gathered around a cemetery at night with cloaks and gas lamps, chanting, "Cancel him!" over and over as they poured a vial of CK's sperm into a big cauldron while they high-fived and signed contracts to join the Marvel Cinematic Universe. All these women have faced since coming forward is mockery, abuse,
doubt, and hatred. As if it's their fault what CK did to them. As if it's their fault for not keeping their traps shut. And they knew how damaging it would be. For 12 years, Cory actively tried not to be part of the CK masturbation narrative.
Julia Walov seriously questioned whether it was worth speaking out and why anyone would do so now knowing the consequences. To all the CK supporters, if what your masturbating deassy did wasn't a big deal, why did he make it such a big deal? Why did he silence all these women? Why did he not come forward? Why did he deny it for his whole career? No. No, you're right. It was Tigaro.
I would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for that lesbian Tigaro. Curse you, lesbian Tignitaro. [Laughter] Lesbian Tignaro is the bedrock of my life eroding beneath me. Ering. So that's an overview of the things Louie fudged or [ __ ] in his apology. Yes, he admitted wrongdoing, but also misled people, distorted and changed facts, and underplayed the role of his silence. It's reasonable.
Let's say that CK's apology should be held under suspicion and should be seen by even the most vigilant CK supporter as the first step for making amends for the damage he's caused. Although I agree that CK's apology is not a nonapology, ultimately it's hard to tell where the motivation came from.
While his words seems sincere and his apology was well spoken, it came at a time of great pressure. It increases the likelihood that the apology might have been as much to mitigate pressure as it was for the people he is apologizing to. When sexual misconduct, I don't want to use the wrong words, has been swept under the metaphorical rug for so long, the sincerity of perpetrators who apologize once they're caught tends to ring hollow.
It feels like a copout, a road taken only because every other road has become a dead end. Knowing what we know now, I think CK used the apology to deal with the accusations as quickly as possible. If he disputed the stories or denied them outright, it would have opened a conversation. He would have to explain himself and provide his side of the story, which he clearly never wanted to do.
It would also leave the door open for more women to come forward, of which there could be many, and ultimately force him to really contend with what he had done. So instead, he did something far more cowardly and I think cunning. He said the stories were true while warping that truth to favor him as much as possible and in the process lowered the drawbridge for a certain section of his fan base to forgive him.
If there's one thing I'm now sure of about CK's apology, it's that he wasn't facing up to what he had done. He was continuing to run. Here's what CK was accused of in the New York Times. And here's some of the other potential incidents. You've got to wonder how many more stories are out there. But enough of this. Come on. This is a stretch. I don't like that kind of talk now. Just stop it. It upsets me.
Louis CK, this harmless schlub. He's not capable of this. He's no criminal mastermind, no abusive silencer. Go back to your Sherlock Holmes books, buddy. How can the comedian we knew be capable of such deceit? Well, let me explain.
